Confused

[xenomorph]

Hi all
I started contracting 6 months ago via a agency to a public sector client.
My end client in my contract is the actual client and not a consultancy or agency,
The changes for clients to determine IR35 status was about to start and thus my end client told me this role is outside of IR35 and then I signed.
I got a contract review with QDOS before I signed and they said it was outside also and needed no changes. This was not a review with working practices as I had not started yet.

Now my client tells me seniors are doing a review of contracts in light of the issues seen by other public clients.
My contract is odd as master contract for my role is 2 years long but agency and client re issues a new Statement of Work every 6 months to ensure its outcome based.
My initial 6 month ends in March and if nothing else in contract changes but now I am seen inside IR35 then would this be possible?
Anything I can do about it? Other then challenge why they said it was not inside 6 months ago?

[northernladuk]

Hi all
I started contracting 6 months ago via a agency to a public sector client.
My end client in my contract is the actual client and not a consultancy or agency
The changes for clients to determine IR35 status was about to start and thus my end client told me this role is outside of IR35 and then I signed.

Not sure what you man by this. The changes in the public sector have been in place for 2 years now.

I got a contract review with QDOS before I signed and they said it was outside also and needed no changes. This was not a review with working practices as I had not started yet.

Not such an issue as the client has stated it's outside so it's their responsibility as per the legislation that hit 2 years ago. What has changes is the public sector must issue an SDS like anyone else.

Now my client tells me seniors are doing a review of contracts in light of the issues seen by other public clients.

There has been quite a bit of noise around some clients doing this wrong. I seem to think a rail set up and NHS Digital (who got fined for it) but couldn't say if there were related. Just remember the noise.

My contract is odd as master contract for my role is 2 years long but agency and client re issues a new Statement of Work every 6 months to ensure its outcome based.

As long as the work truely is 2 years and the statements of work do reflect the journey to meet that target. It should be pretty easy to spot if it's a sham just detailing the work done in that period rather than deliverables.. i.e. difference between moving along the path of a large transformation or just what a bum on seat PM will do in the next 3 months. Make sure it's right and it's not just a flimsy paperwork exercise.

My initial 6 month ends in March and if nothing else in contract changes but now I am seen inside IR35 then would this be possible?

Of course it can. The client can decide that the working practices don't suit them anymore or they didn't understand at the time. If they've fallen out of favour with substitutes they may can that which is likely to put you inside. They may want to control you more or give you different work which you must do etc.

Anything I can do about it? Other then challenge why they said it was not inside 6 months ago?

Not much. If other PS have been caught with their pants down they may either realize they've been doing it wrong or decided to bit a lot more strict on some working practices. They may have paid substitute lip service back in the day but if pressured would admit they won't so they've rectified it.

If you can challenge it. You could ask them to see the determination which I believe you are entitled to do by law. It would be better if you could discuss it with them rather than using points of law to force their hand. I've challenged a council offering that was inside but when I got on site it appeared very much outside. I asked for my determination and got told not to take it any further or else. Never saw the determination which I believe they are obliged to provide by law.

If they do provide it then you can see what you might be able to do about it.

[northernladuk]

What is it you do exactly?

[ladymuck]

Deleted as I didn't spot it was public sector.

[xenomorph]

What is it you do exactly?

I work in IT sector.
This is a long running transformation project of sorts so all the contractors have similar 2 year contracts but with 6 month SoWs.
In terms of substitutes, while I been here no one has used one as they all wanted to keep working and could.

This client is pretty good on items like changing what contractors do as one had to change roles and thus he refused unless they issued a new contract.
On other things like working hours or places of work they flexible as long as you carry out the tasks in your SoW and in time frames stated.

[GhostofTarbera]

I work in IT sector.
This is a long running transformation project of sorts so all the contractors have similar 2 year contracts but with 6 month SoWs.
In terms of substitutes, while I been here no one has used one as they all wanted to keep working and could.

This client is pretty good on items like changing what contractors do as one had to change roles and thus he refused unless they issued a new contract.
On other things like working hours or places of work they flexible as long as you carry out the tasks in your SoW and in time frames stated.

So exactly like a permie


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[xenomorph]

So exactly like a permie


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I dont see how?
I was permie for 6 years, As a permie I had fixed hours I must work in my contract and I had to be in the office 5 days a week.
Also my employer changed my role dozen times to suit new requirements without asking me or changing my contract.

My current contract has no working hours or place.
If I told them Im working from Paris next week they can not refuse.
I also dont have to ask if I need time off or holidays, I just let them know when I am not working.
While as a permie I had to request time off from my line manger.

[Drei]

Plenty of public sector contractors work as SoW. Some obviously got scared and are doing blanket IR35.

This is the new SoW Contract that clever and brave agencies have implemented. In principle it should all be good and outside IR35, until HMRC decides it isn't or changes the law

I guess it depends how it is worded, if you have deliverables and payment milestones when each piece of work is done over 6 months with a clause that states that the each billing milestone cannot be delayed by more than 1 week or whatever then great.

If your SoW is time and materials or stating £500 per day, and phase 1 is 6 months with payments every week then... maybe not.

It really needs to be a proper SoW, not just one disguised as one as you just charge your daily rate for 6 months.